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Boro33
- Apr 2021
- 60
#1
PSAC Portal Reality
Reality in the scholarship limited PASC is a reality most either do not understand or do not want.
When these teams look at fielding competitive rosters, there are a few layers they must address.
1. Teams now must recruit their own rosters every year.
2.Recruit HS players that will be "program" players that you hope can play in 2 or 3 years.
3. Fill in 5 - 8 portal players that will fill your needs.
PROBLEM: Outside of Slippery Rock, Shepherd, IUP, and maybe Cal and Kutztown .....nobody else can afford to use the portal. The Ships and West Chesters, and East Strouds of the world are operating on 11 - 15 Scholies. The top 3 have 24 - 28 equivs.
Its not going to get any better with the funding issue. How do you compete to "win" the PSAC with that deck of cards?Tags:None
IUPbigINDIANS
D2 Hall of Famer
- Sep 2014
- 25875
#2
The PSAC is more lopsided than MLB. Been saying it for years. The league is full of programs that have absolutely no chance to win. Making matters worse, the bottom half has become a developmental (minor league) program for the rich.
Of course, why do some schools have more scholarship money than others? There's no rule stating the lesser teams can't raise more money. How hard to they actually try? There's your answer.
A coach in this league better be as good of a salesman as he is a coach. No money, few wins.
How many programs truly ask for money from donors? I'm not talking some day of giving, once a year charade. I mean how many actually chase that coin? You'd be shocked how few do. Those who do, win.
No magic touch over the course of a long season. The team with the most good players wins.
- 1 like
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EastStroud13
D2Football.com Donor - 2018 2019 2020 2022
- Mar 2018
- 953
#3
Originally posted by Boro33View Post
Reality in the scholarship limited PASC is a reality most either do not understand or do not want.
When these teams look at fielding competitive rosters, there are a few layers they must address.
1. Teams now must recruit their own rosters every year.
2.Recruit HS players that will be "program" players that you hope can play in 2 or 3 years.
3. Fill in 5 - 8 portal players that will fill your needs.
PROBLEM: Outside of Slippery Rock, Shepherd, IUP, and maybe Cal and Kutztown .....nobody else can afford to use the portal. The Ships and West Chesters, and East Strouds of the world are operating on 11 - 15 Scholies. The top 3 have 24 - 28 equivs.
Its not going to get any better with the funding issue. How do you compete to "win" the PSAC with that deck of cards?That's the neat part! You don't!
I think most institutions are aware that success comes from investment. To ESU's credit, I have seen investment in sports tangibly improve, and results across the board have followed. Would never have expected us to lead the Dixon Trophy race in the fall. I am not sure we will ever reach the equivs of the top of the PSAC, because the school wants to succeed in the Olympic sports, particularly field hockey and women's lacrosse, but I think we are happy to invest enough to be over .500 on a consistent basis.
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Ram Tough
D2Football.com Donor - 2021 2022 2023
- Jun 2007
- 5934
#4
Originally posted by Boro33View Post
Reality in the scholarship limited PASC is a reality most either do not understand or do not want.
When these teams look at fielding competitive rosters, there are a few layers they must address.
1. Teams now must recruit their own rosters every year.
2.Recruit HS players that will be "program" players that you hope can play in 2 or 3 years.
3. Fill in 5 - 8 portal players that will fill your needs.
PROBLEM: Outside of Slippery Rock, Shepherd, IUP, and maybe Cal and Kutztown .....nobody else can afford to use the portal. The Ships and West Chesters, and East Strouds of the world are operating on 11 - 15 Scholies. The top 3 have 24 - 28 equivs.
Its not going to get any better with the funding issue. How do you compete to "win" the PSAC with that deck of cards?You have to find ways to raise money. It's not the problem of the schools that have invested in their programs. The others have to step up. If they can't, they'll fall further back.
See AlsoTransfer Portal D2 Message Board
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Ship69
- Sep 2019
- 3176
#5
Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANSView Post
The PSAC is more lopsided than MLB. Been saying it for years. The league is full of programs that have absolutely no chance to win. Making matters worse, the bottom half has become a developmental (minor league) program for the rich.
Of course, why do some schools have more scholarship money than others? There's no rule stating the lesser teams can't raise more money. How hard to they actually try? There's your answer.
A coach in this league better be as good of a salesman as he is a coach. No money, few wins.
How many programs truly ask for money from donors? I'm not talking some day of giving, once a year charade. I mean how many actually chase that coin? You'd be shocked how few do. Those who do, win.
No magic touch over the course of a long season. The team with the most good players wins.
It's also a question of how many sports each school is offering, which sports, and how the money is being distributed. On the DI level, the SEC puts most of its eggs in football and not a lot else, although their basketball has improved somewhat. They have no wrestling programs at all. They do well in baseball because of a huge weather advantage. Shippensburg sponsors more sports than Auburn. Ohio State and Penn State probably sponsor 8-9 more sports than the average SEC school.
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Fightingscot82
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019
- May 2007
- 25050
#6
Originally posted by Ship69View Post
It's also a question of how many sports each school is offering, which sports, and how the money is being distributed. On the DI level, the SEC puts most of its eggs in football and not a lot else, although their basketball has improved somewhat. They have no wrestling programs at all. They do well in baseball because of a huge weather advantage. Shippensburg sponsors more sports than Auburn. Ohio State and Penn State probably sponsor 8-9 more sports than the average SEC school.
This is a big part of it. A few years ago, I showed each school and what percentage of their men's scholarships went to football and basketball. The schools with D1 wrestling also have it difficult as D1 wrestling has morphed from a season of conference dual meets to a season of national tournaments and those travel costs add up quickly. I also think a lot of our schools are located in somewhat rural areas that aren't exactly thriving right now. Local businesses that supported football for decades no longer exist. For example, Edinboro D1 wrestling happened because Cliff Troyer of Troyer Farms potato chips in Waterford, PA was a wrestling nut. When Troyer Farms closed, that money eventually disappeared.
We've also hit a meeting point where a lot of alumni graduated with significant loan debt in a generation that never developed a sense of obligation to support their alma mater or really any charitable causes. Alumni giving at every PASSHE school is abysmal (usually ~5% of living alumni with good contact info) and its going down nationally. If PASSHE hadn't been able to hold the line on tuition for the last few years, half the schools would be in single digit equivalencies for football.
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Bart
- May 2007
- 7290
#7
Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANSView Post
No magic touch over the course of a long season. The team with the most good players wins.
Could be said the team with the most money wins. The days when teams were able to develop good players without money are gone. There is no I in team has become there is an I in win.
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IUPNation
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
- May 2007
- 130007
#8
Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANSView Post
The PSAC is more lopsided than MLB. Been saying it for years. The league is full of programs that have absolutely no chance to win. Making matters worse, the bottom half has become a developmental (minor league) program for the rich.
Of course, why do some schools have more scholarship money than others? There's no rule stating the lesser teams can't raise more money. How hard to they actually try? There's your answer.
A coach in this league better be as good of a salesman as he is a coach. No money, few wins.
How many programs truly ask for money from donors? I'm not talking some day of giving, once a year charade. I mean how many actually chase that coin? You'd be shocked how few do. Those who do, win.
No magic touch over the course of a long season. The team with the most good players wins.
Walk On U should be cleaning up. They should be floating in money being in Chester County. They sponsor more sports than everyone else in the Pee Sack. Maybe they'd have more foosball cash if they didn't have so many sports. They aren't spending it on facilities. Farrell is no better than The Cig...the concessions are sold out of shed...the have one mens room and one ladies room for the whole stadium...the scoreboard is outdated. Then their basketball facility is really old...it's okay...just that the visiting side is all temporary stands...
IUP had all those old supporters...I imagine many have passed on...especially all the car dealership families that seemed to support IUP. Do their kids and grandkids still support IUP like they did? I don't know...just seemed like Delaneys and Spadaforas were big IUP donors. Indiana is home to S&T Bank. You'd think they'd drop a dime or two to IUP.
Last edited by IUPNation; 01-10-2024, 04:51 PM.
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IUPNation
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
- May 2007
- 130007
#9
Originally posted by EastStroud13View Post
That's the neat part! You don't!
I think most institutions are aware that success comes from investment. To ESU's credit, I have seen investment in sports tangibly improve, and results across the board have followed. Would never have expected us to lead the Dixon Trophy race in the fall. I am not sure we will ever reach the equivs of the top of the PSAC, because the school wants to succeed in the Olympic sports, particularly field hockey and women's lacrosse, but I think we are happy to invest enough to be over .500 on a consistent basis.
It's interesting how each school targets their overall athletic program...you guys with "Olympic Sports" and IUP going with the "Revenue Sports"
Personally...I want IUP to target Foosball/Volleyball in the fall, Both Basketball teams in the winter and Baseball/Softball and the spring. Win those 6 every year and the Dixon trophy stays where it should have been many times over the years in Indiana. Golf would just be that extra benefit....
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IUPNation
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023
- May 2007
- 130007
#10
Originally posted by Ship69View Post
It's also a question of how many sports each school is offering, which sports, and how the money is being distributed. On the DI level, the SEC puts most of its eggs in football and not a lot else, although their basketball has improved somewhat. They have no wrestling programs at all. They do well in baseball because of a huge weather advantage. Shippensburg sponsors more sports than Auburn. Ohio State and Penn State probably sponsor 8-9 more sports than the average SEC school.
Now do D2...with all of the huffing and puffing from the Region 3 fanboys...everyone of those schools except Grand Valley sponsor less sports than almost every Pee Sack school. They win at foosball because they don't really have many more sports to fund.
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Huskie14
- Jan 2022
- 35
#11
How many scholarships does Kutz have?
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Fightingscot82
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019
- May 2007
- 25050
#12
Originally posted by Huskie14View Post
How many scholarships does Kutz have?
Last numbers I've seen are from fall 21 and Kutztown had 8.3 equivalencies.
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Huskie14
- Jan 2022
- 35
#13
Originally posted by Fightingscot82View Post
Last numbers I've seen are from fall 21 and Kutztown had 8.3 equivalencies.
So we can agree that a winning program can be built w a limited amount of scholarships w the right coaching and culture.
I always read on the message board how more scholarships is the path to winning. I'm sure it helps but isn't Gannon and Seton hill fully funded? Isn't what Clements has built proof that a national caliber team can be built without a ton of scholarships? Pretty sure Danny Hale did the same.
Not disputing any of the points made doesn't help a program but without great coaching and a great culture your not winning year in and year out.
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Fightingscot82
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019
- May 2007
- 25050
#14
Originally posted by Huskie14View Post
So we can agree that a winning program can be built w a limited amount of scholarships w the right coaching and culture.
I always read on the message board how more scholarships is the path to winning. I'm sure it helps but isn't Gannon and Seton hill fully funded? Isn't what Clements has built proof that a national caliber team can be built without a ton of scholarships? Pretty sure Danny Hale did the same.
Not disputing any of the points made doesn't help a program but without great coaching and a great culture your not winning year in and year out.
Kind of. Gannon is close to fully funded as is Mercyhurst. Seton Hill is very low. I can't explain why but privates have a harder time correlating their football discounting with winning.
I can't confirm for Kutztown but most East schools have fee waivers on top of the football money.
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IUPbigINDIANS
D2 Hall of Famer
- Sep 2014
- 25875
#15
Originally posted by Huskie14View Post
So we can agree that a winning program can be built w a limited amount of scholarships w the right coaching and culture.
I always read on the message board how more scholarships is the path to winning. I'm sure it helps but isn't Gannon and Seton hill fully funded? Isn't what Clements has built proof that a national caliber team can be built without a ton of scholarships? Pretty sure Danny Hale did the same.
Not disputing any of the points made doesn't help a program but without great coaching and a great culture your not winning year in and year out.
Kutztown may report 8 scholarships but if anybody actually believes that's the only money being used to build that roster ... I'll sell you some swamp land.
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